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I am working on a 12v automotive circuit and I needed to switch a 12v solenoid with Pi Pico which has a 3.3v logic.

Initially I picked an IRLB8721 MOSFET which claims a 2.5v V(gs) thinking it would work. To my surprise it didn't so I went back to the datasheet and rechecked this chart, showing that at 3.0v V(gs) and 12v (Vds) it should be able to flow over 3 amps

Vds vs Id

I did some searching and came across multiple posts where people have pointed to fig 12 below saying it doesn't really work below 2.5v

Vgs vs Rds

I am having a hard time reconciling all that info. Feels like each one contradicts the others. Would someone please help clarify how to read these charts ?

UPDATE
Not this this directly answers the question, but I learned that the MOSFETs I purchased were counterfeit. Part of my confusion is that the Vds x Id chart did not reflect reality. The chart shows that the MOSFET should be at least partially on at 3v while in reality it flows 0mA.

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    \$\begingroup\$ Please show a circuit for your situation, including at least the power source, Pi, mosfet, and load. Be precise about ground and power connections. Based on your description so far, I suspect you'll be much better off with a NPN BJT in this case. \$\endgroup\$
    – marcelm
    Commented Jul 8 at 6:21
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    \$\begingroup\$ Just making sure, you have the source of the MOSFET connected to the vehicle's ground, right? (Or, if it's outside the vehicle, you have it connected to the same conductor that's intended to connect to the vehicle's ground?) \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 8 at 14:43
  • \$\begingroup\$ Please provide technical specification for your solenoid. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 8 at 17:56

4 Answers 4

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For one thing, these graphs are typical values, not guaranteed values. Threshold voltage is one of the more variable parameters in a FET, and it's not unusual for it to differ by hundreds of mV between lots.

But fundamentally, you seem to be falling for a trap that a lot of hobbyists fall into, of assuming that a FET is 100% on when the gate-source voltage exceeds its threshold voltage and 100% off when it doesn't. While it is true that it's almost completely off when Vgs < Vth, you need to exceed Vth by at least a handful of volts for it to be anything approaching fully on. The IRLB8721 is not designed to be used with gate voltages below 4.5 V, the lowest gate voltage for which an Rdson is specified.

You're almost there checking that first graph, but you've missed the fact that the solenoid requires some voltage as well--you don't have Vds = 12 V if you want to actually power the solenoid. Without data on the specific solenoid, I can't tell you exactly what voltage/current is required to actuate it, but it's apparently more than it's getting when you drive the gate at 3.3 V.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ thanks @Hearth ! As you astutely noticed I am an ME who dabbles in EE when needed. I did consider the voltage issue so I swapped the solenoid with a small motor that I know would run at V's as low as 6v consuming 0.1A all while keeping the +ve rail at 12V and still wouldn't run the motor. I think there is a non linearity somewhere that is getting me ? I still have a hard time reconciling the charts. If I calculate the R from the first one at Vds=1 and using the Vgs=3.0 graph, I get ~0.25-0.3 ohms. If make the same assumption on the 2nd one, R would equal infinity. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 7 at 21:47
  • \$\begingroup\$ @FadyMegally Like I said, this MOSFET is not designed for 3.3 V drive. Remember that, unless explicitly stated otherwise, nothing in those graphs is ever guaranteed behaviour--the only guarantees are the minima and maxima given in the tables. Transconductance and threshold voltage (the two primary parameters at play here) are also both strongly temperature dependent; you'll get less current at lower temperatures. That graph is only representative of typical behaviour at 25 °C, which is quite possibly a bit warmer than your workshop. \$\endgroup\$
    – Hearth
    Commented Jul 7 at 21:54
  • \$\begingroup\$ Also, a motor is not a very representative load. Motors need much more current to start up than they do to run, so while 0.1 A might be enough to keep it spinning, you probably need a couple of amps to get it started in the first place. It'd be better to measure the current with a meter. \$\endgroup\$
    – Hearth
    Commented Jul 7 at 21:55
  • \$\begingroup\$ Got it. Thank you! Yeah I took that reading off my bench power supply display so it is not very accurate as well. And fair point about the motor starting current. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 7 at 21:58
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    \$\begingroup\$ I voted this answer up because it is concise and informative. Spec tables are guarantees of behavior, curves are typical, so are not guarantees. FET choices below 4/5V(5V) drive specs tend to be focused on specific applications, so it can be more difficult to find a reasonable selection. A different approach is to use a circuit or IC to level shift the 3.3V logic signal to 12V, the solenoid voltage and use a FET with a 10V Rds on spec and the ability to be driven to 12V (for these FETS, 20V abs max Vgs seems common) \$\endgroup\$
    – JkingNH
    Commented Jul 8 at 5:33
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Based on a comment I assume 100mA is required when the solenoid is energized.

I am having a hard time reconciling all that info. Feels like each one contradicts the others. Would someone please help clarify how to read these charts ?

Figure 1 shows the curves for the drain current \$I_D\$ vs the drain-source voltage \$V_{DS}\$ (not the applied voltage) with the gate source voltage as a parameter. The circuit has two operating points.

  1. ON where \$V_{DS}\approx 0\$ and \$I_D\approx 100mA\$.
  2. OFF where \$V_{DS}=12V\$ and \$I_D=0A\$.

Neither of these points can be plotted on the Figure 1 diagram, and so this transistor is not suitable for your application.

May I suggest studying load-lines. Perhaps this Wikipedia page will help. Figure 1 uses logarithmic axes so a load-line is difficult to use here. The points should fall on the vertical and horizontal axis respectively to use a load line.

As noted in the OP, Figure 12 in the datasheet confirms that operating with \$V_{GS} < 4V\$ results in a very high \$R_{DSon}\$. Notice also that Figure 12 was created for \$I_D=31A\$. So again this transistor is not suitable.

Figure 6 shows the gate charge required to turn on the FET. The horizontal line is called the Miller plateau. \$R_{DSon}\$ is decreasing rapidly (FET turning ON) as charge is applied to the gate-drain capacitance in this region. While this is more a dynamical chart (PWM for example), it clearly shows that \$V_{GS}>\approx 3.8V\$ is desirable, further confirming that this transistor is not suitable for this application.

I won't go into the details of this chart. It is very interesting though and worthy of study.

VGS vs Gate charge

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The second graph you showed is annotated with \$I_D=31A\$, which is well beyond your own requirement, and only represents behaviour along that line on the \$I_D\$ vs. \$V_{DS}\$:

enter image description here

The graph of \$R_{DS(ON)}\$ isn't very useful here, except in the sense that it does suggest that the device is expected to be used in applications demanding far greater drain current than you will be using.

at 3.0v V(gs) and 12v (Vds) it should be able to flow over 3 amps

You have forgotten than when the transistor is on, you require it to have almost no voltage across it, \$V_{DS} \approx 0V\$:

schematic

simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab

The relay coil should have all 12V, and therefore, that 12V, 3A point is irrelevant for your calculations.

Rather, you will be operating the device near the left edge of the graph of \$I_D\$ vs. \$V_{DS}\$, near \$V_{DS}=0.1V\$, for which the appropriate line (bottom) shows \$I_D \approx 1A\$.

I seriously doubt that anything strange happens further to the left than shown on that graph, and I would expect this MOSFET to maintain low enough \$R_{DS}\$ that \$V_{DS}\$ remains below 0.1V for all currents below 1A. For this reason, I too would expect this device to work in your application.

Despite that belief, I wouldn't recommend making such extrapolations. That the graph doesn't include conditions under which you intend to operate is an indication that this device probably isn't right for you.

I remind you also that the quoted worst-case \$V_{GS(TH)}=2.35V\$ is valid only for \$I_D=25\mu A\$, and for \$V_{DS}\$ significantly greater than zero, so this value is not a good indicator of what gate potential will pass hundreds of milliamps of drain current.

Still, why doesn't it work? I think it should. Perhaps it's damaged, which is easy enough to do with imprudent handling. The gate isn't protected against ESD like most CMOS integrated circuit inputs, so if you don't take care to avoid ESD, then you could easily blast a hole in the gate before you even switch the circuit on.

Or, perhaps you got yourself a counterfeit device.

Aside from buying another one (from a reputable source), I would recommend testing the device in some kind of test rig, to obtain your own graphs, and see how they agree or differ from the datasheet's claims. That's what I would do.

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    \$\begingroup\$ "Still, why doesn't it work? I think it should." - we don't know the solenoid parameters to make the conclusion. Solenoids can be tricky, the mechanical load might play a role. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 8 at 18:45
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Instead of playing roulette with uncertainties and variability of bare MOSFETS, you can use an industrial-grade solution called "power distribution switches and load drivers", check, for example, DigiKey. Something like BTS7002:

enter image description here

These devices do cost more, but they provide reliable switching of many kinds of loads with lots of controls and sensors, and they are "automotive grade".

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    \$\begingroup\$ This doesn't answer the question. "Would someone please help clarify how to read these charts?" is what OP wants to know, and everyone else searching for the same question. OP does not ask about alternatives. \$\endgroup\$
    – pipe
    Commented Jul 8 at 5:36
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    \$\begingroup\$ @pipe, yes, I do realize that. But the issue is about an automotive circuit, where reliability and safety of operation is a must. The question about "reading these MOSFET charts" was apparently thoroughly investigated by automotive professionals of silicon industry, and apparently they were not able to find a coherent and converging answer to this question, which resulted in introduction of a special class of devices that can be controlled reliably from low-voltage MCUs, so the question about particular I-V curves won't arise at all. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 8 at 17:55

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